Schooling for the Raid-Challenged

Today, my emailers do all the work for me and bird dog some World of Warcraft forum fun.

Emailer Indy (who never goes on an adventure without a hat) found some loot drama on the Hunter forums from a disgruntled Karazhan raider: /sigh .. Q about raiding loot.

As Indy noted and as you can see, Fubarius, level 70 hunter of the Vashj realm, posted his loot QQ from his main account and *GASP!* word got back to the guild. Fubarius, model guild citizen and stellar raider wrote:

Shortened version:
A hunter in my guild is a female character and female IRL. Her husband is kind of a main healer and she gets ALL the hunter loot. She’s a complete “Loot !**##”
When she got the t4 legs they said in vent “So ____ how many blow jobs did it take you to get that?”
Basically she kisses up.

Is this fair? I lost all the tier gear to her. It’s really not fair, i’m stuck in mostly full blues while she rocks the epics.. /sigh

Yes, yes, calling an officer’s (real life) wife a whore is a good idea!

Bla bla, some replies about the pros and cons of loot councils and DKP systems that we don’t care about and then BOOM, The Guild arrives:

Page 3, reply #40, Infamous, level 70 warrior of Fubarius’ guild has a different opinion:

actually its not because shes a female. when we were considering who to give the tier5 shoulders, the only time your name came up was when every1 decided who was NOT getting them.

personally i picked drakko for tier5 but she has been to SLIGHTLY more raids and the other officers wanted her to have them instead, i just wanted to get on with some more loot so i shrugged and let them lootmaster it to her.

anyway after reading this, i was gonna wait til u logged on to gkick u, but a certain paladin spoiled my fun immediately after reading what i said.

u dont deserve tier 4 ANYTHING, i raided in apocalypse for 2 months and only got tier4 gloves cuz rootz thought i perma respecced prot, u are surely not getting tier 5 shoulders after raiding for like 1month and crying the whole time while contributing NOTHING.

did u ever farm those primals? did u ever raise your tradeskills like we asked u to? looking in my mail RIGHT NOW, i can see that she sent me nightmare seed and her husband sent me some +30 stamina buff food. is that called sucking up? no, its called using tradeskills to benefit the guild, i am a maintank so i use these things to win fights and get people loot. i am a blacksmith and i bring sharpening stones, u know this because time after time u have opened a trade window on me and time after time i have given u one just for that lil extra bit of crit that might help turn a near wipe into a victory. however that does us no good when u die on every karazhan fight, but thats another story.

u never even deserved Legacy over her, u just took advantage of her kindness in letting u sub in for her, and that was Astriel’s decision not mine. he has since regretted it as much as i have. she is one of the least greedy people i have raided with, she had asked many times to have her tier tokens passed to her friend (a gnome mage) but we decided against it cuz of other items being available.

sorry hunters im not trying to incite forum drama, im just trying to clear my guilds name. nubarius here has long been something of a joke on this server, we decided to give him one “last chance” by inviting him into this guild and look how it turned out.
he wipes us constantly with his terrible pulling and trapping, he ninja looted fiend slayer boots from chess event before we made the loot decision, he even logged off after void reaver and logged in vent to listen during doomwalker without taking part in the fight and i was willing to see past all that. but making a whiny loot %#**% thread like this was the last straw. i told u numerous times to step your game up and to stop this forum business, thank u for proving that u are incapable of doing either.

oh yea to respond to some of the replys i saw while glancin thru, shes not an officers wife, and fubarius lost the last few “friends” he had on this server by making this thread. the way he acts in this game, i wouldnt be surprised if he doesnt have any friends in real life either.

that should about cover everything, feel free to remind me if i left anything out fubarius

So. We learned that calling a guildmate’s wife a whore on a public forum from our main account is a bad idea. Actually, WE didn’t learn that, we already knew that. Maybe Fubarius learned that though. Maybe.

There’s a few side discussions which are interesting though: Loot Councils (especially for Karazhan, wtf) and the responsibilities of a raid leader.

First, Loot Councils, in my opinion, are a nice ideal. (Nub tutorial: A loot council system distributes game loot via council decision, i.e. merit) I’ve been in a few guilds that used a loot council, either for all the loot or for loot of a certain level, either primo or deprecated.

As I said, nice ideal, the problem is this: no matter the guild, no matter the council, no matter the shit loot being given away, there’s always the stink of favoritism. Are we not human? Yes, we are. As humans, our perspective is always skewed to our own selves. I know 100% of what I’ve done for the guild, but I know maybe 50% of what Guildmate14 has done. Therefore, Guildmate14 has done half of what I’ve done for the guild and I deserve everything.

Cuz I’m human and stupid. It’s all science.

Second, Raid Leader responsibilities. This discussion kicks up around page 3, reply #54:

Maybe you should stop being a %%@@@ and start being a RL and help him? If you are going to sit idely by and watch him suck, laugh to yourself, then /gkick him your guild deserves to fall apart. You’re an idiot for taking him in, an even bigger one for not trying to strengthen him to help the guild.

and reply #61:

Giving him options? Options can be declined or accepted. You, as a raid leader, have an OBLIGATION to help him in whatever raid you can. If you have to, force him to spec/dps the right way. Direct him to threads or even these forums for assistance. Options does not improve a human, options only shows a human that you don’t know how to lead.

Oh ya, these replies are all by Velkyria, level 70 hunter who is well known on the hunter forums in the hunter community at large. See reply #64, he (she) gives the creds:

I am not random, I am actually well known amongst the Hunter populace. Try again, though, sugarplun

A raid leader is responsible for many things, could not pay me enough to take that job. (Also, I’m not very good at it.)

Designing strats, the heavy /sighing on Vent after a wipe, knowing every class’ abilities and specs, calling the raid cuz it’s going NOWHERE, inviting the right combo of healers, tanks, DPS, etc. … all that and more is the raid leader’s job. Holding hands, working with the learning disability crowd after raid, lending a sympathetic ear … OPTIONAL activities for the raid leader.

Unless other servers have a much different economy than my own, raid leaders are not getting paid. They are not contractual educators with tenure and health benefits. They are volunteers performing a much needed function for their guild.

Most players, however, are not talented raid leaders (for example, me). When you find an outstanding raid leader, you follow him (or her) from guild to guild to guild, because you will never want for loot or high adventure. You don’t whine that the RL isn’t teaching the nublets how to farm materials or how to socket gems or evalutating everyone’s spec. You keep your mouth shut and your armor shined because you don’t want that job. It’s thankless hard work made all the more thankless by ungrateful pricks.

Sure, there are some guilds whose officers and raid leaders will hold hands and offer additional classes for the raid-challenged. Those guilds are called FEEDER GUILDS, which also perform a much needed function. 😀

(Thanks Indy, good find!)

12 thoughts on “Schooling for the Raid-Challenged

  1. ‘sugarplun’?!

    it’s interesting how people’s definition of a “real leader” always equals a leader who gives them what they want. it’s also interesting that they keep looking for “real leaders” in a video game. it’s a specious argument, either way.

  2. When I see people post grumps like that about their guild, while it’s entertaining to read the inevitable “guild” response, I always wonder why respond in the first place beyond saying something like “Kicked from guild”. Aside from venting, what’s the point in a long-winded reply?

    @Heather – that’s a fairly narrow point of view. Most times when people gather for a purpose, a leader will emerge. Real? Sure. The comment should be more about the importance of the leader’s (and group’s) purpose, imho.

  3. @Mena: The long winded rant is a requirement for the WoW class forums. It actually won’t let you submit a reply that is less than 27 paragraphs long and has at least 15 claims of superiority over another of that class.

  4. Whomever uses sugarplun is a charlatan. And I’m sure all the true “real leaders” in WoW will become a Messiah around level 99, and in true zealous leadership they will save their flock from the damnation that will be Everquest II: Lost Tribes in Space or World of Warcraft II: Ark Peons, whichever comes first. Doesn’t get more real than that.

  5. Mena: Sure, leaders emerge, and it’s great when they do. But to expect that someone who’s organizing a raid in a video game must be a leader, and must fit one’s own definition of a good leader, is over-the-top and, frankly, just plain silly.

  6. @Heather – “Good” and “real”, two seperate things though. Totally respect your opinion – it’s great when people see things differently and it doesn’t end up with “Oh yeah, well you suck” and so forth. I like you! 🙂

    Tbh, I was involved in guild management for quite a while and have recently “stepped down”. Is likely the difference for me here – still close enough to it that these types of things as posted in WoW forums, still boggle me. Why go thru that? But yeah, it is entertaining…well, at least as long as my guild’s not involved in it! :p

  7. Mena: Yeah, I unfortunately ended up as a guild officer for a while and then got guild leader dumped on me unexpectedly (ancient history). Not a raiding guild though, although those few people who came through wanting to turn it into one sure tended to make life difficult on everything else. Looking back if we’d been smart we’d have just said “nope, go elsewhere to get your purple pixels,” but hey, we wanted to make people happy, and thought it would be fun to work our way up to end content. Of course we could never do it fast enough for those folks’ taste, and they didn’t want to put any effort in themselves, so naturally things broke down.

    Much more relaxed about my play now, which I like better! 🙂 It’s fun to read about others’ drama here though, naturally. *grin*

  8. It’S funny but by far the most successfull guilds i’ve been in always had at least 1 outstanding raidleader.
    For a loot raid the raidleader can be shit and it might still work, but if you want to progress you need a raidleader who kicks ass.
    I used to be a pretty good raidleader in vanilla wow (up to AQ when i quit because i had enough after 18 months of raidleading). The problem is though, that if your raidleader has to hold peoples hand during the raid he will burn out mighty fast, because the raiding itself stops being fun for him.
    In the end the “system” we used to keep our raidleaders “interested” was that we had 4 guys doing raids, and even switching during raids so the others could hang back for a spell and smoke a zigg (or rant if necessary). Then when we reached whatever encounter required the “big guns” our guildmaster would take over “leader” (meaning he arranged groups before and during the fight if necessary) and i took over briefing and Vent command.
    To be honest i admire people who can do an entire 6h raid alone, because personally i couldn’t. We generally divided into at least 2 sometimes 3 parts (e.g. person A does group setup, person B does Loot in general, person C says what to do and who to kill). That only works though if person A and C are a team.

    Now after this rant off topic, back to topic:
    During Mc -> AQ i have tought at least 60 players how to raid (our server had almost 0 old EQ players). I’ve explained what to use, what to enchant, who to target first, who to talk to improve your spec. I’ve tried to teach people how to walk a circle (hello c’thun), i’ve explained how to keybind assist buttons, etc. etc. etc.
    Frankly at some point even the worst player has either learned the necessary skills or his trial is over. We had a complete newbie walk into AQ40 and do C’thun as a priest on first try without error, because he ACTUALLY LISTENED to what we said. If the recruit hasn’t reached that stage within a maximum of 3 weeks than i am sorry but out you get.

    I do not know that hunter you quoted (frankly i don’t read classboards anymore) but his idea of what a raidleader should do is rather insane. How excactly is he supposed to do all that while actually leading a raid? it’s hard enough at times to play your own character decently if the encounter is hectic (an old joke inside my guild was that on every single first kill i die at some point because i am too busy to scream at player X to dodge whatever AOE the boss is doing)

    @Mena: some guilds think they require a public image to recruit successfully. Other guilds have figured out that the only thing you need to recruit is success. Our standard response to drama on the board (never nearly as big as AFK gamers drama) was either: “kicked from guild” or “it’s all the elves fault” (guess what race my char was)

  9. That thread should have ended at “we gave him one more chance” when it was a known fact that the hunter in question was a known bad egg on the server.

    As for raidleaders, they shouldn’t have to hold any individual hands. Imagine having to recruit the right class balance for a fight, come up with a strat, explain the strat to the masses, tolerate the endless questions in vent or whispers, etc etc. only to have to explain to Druid001 about how to heal? No thanks. By the time someone is past Karazhan, they should know how to spec and play their class. Respect raidleaders, it’s only a matter of time before they’re dousing themselves in gasoline and lighting themselves up in frustration.

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