Comments on: The Karazhan Mistake

By: hickinthewoods

hickinthewoods — Thu, 25 Sep 2008 22:07:21 +0000

for those of us that cannot do higher than 10 man raids (see dial-up) we could care less.

By: Colette

Colette — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 14:42:21 +0000

What if they gave everyone a personal raid reset option. so if u ran Kara with 1 guild group and next day you were needed to help another group you could jsut reset yourself.

By: Rakemu, Moonrunner

Rakemu, Moonrunner — Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:28:28 +0000

Many of the points brought up in this article were things that my last guild suffered through. I can say that the system is flawed and will never be perfect, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t room for improvement for both sides of the coin. I personally would love to see Gruul’s as a 10 man, Mag as well, it WILL happen when people are level 80 (probably even soloed) but the focus of the article is a little skewed to the perspective that everyone wants to do 25 man content, which is simply not true. I like Kara, it’s an instance that takes thought and requires people to practice skills that arent always put into place (shackle, multi-mob tanking, running around so as not to be sucked up into a torandoe) and offers variations as to how each event can be done (opera being the most obvious). That being said, I do agree that the main focus of the article is valid. The issue of having a 10 man instance being forced for progression for 25 man instances is at the least problematic and at most cataclysmic to guilds. The article does overlook one key factor here, and that is that essentially 25 man raids will be optional for progression, yes there will be differences in experience and loot (one can only hope amount of loot dropped not amount of loot available to drop) but the content is still there for those that are not able to hang with the big boys. having both 10 and 25 man versions of raids is the best of both worlds and will allow a lot of guilds, that would otherwise crumble, to stick together and build through WotLK like they have before.

P.S. put in a 3 day reset timer on Kara already!FFS!!!

By: Corey

Corey — Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:51:47 +0000

The biggest problem I’ve noticed with the 10 vs 25 man raids isn’t so much that groups get left behind. It’s the fact that if you have enough players in guild to do 3 full Kara raids, you have too many dedicated players to enter 25-man raids. Think about it. Even in an ideal world, it’s flawed. 30 people sign in to do 3 kara groups. These groups stay together and gear together. If we assume that the three groups finish their gear grind and complete Kara at the same time (ideal world), you now have 30 players trying to run a 25 player instance. What happens to those other 5 players? Either they’re redundant classes who get put in the back seat until another member can’t attend, or they are left to find another group to run with. If these 5 are rotated with another 5 players (say for example, it’s 10 rogues… I’m vastly oversimplifying), and each group alternates raid slots weekly, then suddenly your entire rogue force is crippled compared to the other players who have had the opportunity to run every raid.

My proposal: either remove 10-mans alltogether (don’t like this idea, as 10-man groups are much easier to organize for small guilds), or bump the next level of raid up to 30 players.

I realize that Blizz has stated that WotLK will have 10/25 versions of each dungeon, but that still hurts the entire group dynamic.

For the record, this is all speculation and theory, as I have never actually raided. I’m greatly looking forward to my first Kara run. I just see obvious flaws in the system.

By: Shyron

Shyron — Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:25:35 +0000

Technically, Blizzard DID learn from the Karazhan mistake. The mistake was making guilds change raid sizes. They’re not making us do that again. We get to pick one size and stick with it, plus there will be separate timers for both versions. 10 mans are popular because they’re puggable. We’re actually getting the best of both worlds in WotLK. We’re getting a great intro 25 man raid, and we won’t be forced to change between raid sizes. Plus we can still pug the 10 mans on our alts, or for off gear, or for fun, or whatever.

The mistake has been learned from.

By: nene

nene — Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:01:37 +0000

think outside the box.
how about keeping the 7 day dungeon ID, and at the same time you can run multiple ID. Once you zone in, you can pick which game you want to run.

So if a hardcore players want to run 5 different kara in a week, s/he can pick which to go into. it is no different than having a multiple “saved” games in a nintendo.

By: squirly

squirly — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 10:03:10 +0000

P.S. plz ignore grammar and such in my previous post was never very good spent too much time playing video games rather than homework etc.

By: squirly

squirly — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 09:59:59 +0000

once you hit lvl 70 and you get some half decent gear be it all blues or a mixture of blues and greens however it may be. it doesn’t make an ounce of difference whether you do karazhan or not imho if you really want to then go for it if not, don’t, simple. The thing you need to think about here is that you make your own decisions blizzard aren’t forcing us to go to kara/gruuls/mag/ssc/tk or bt they are there if you want to do them you could always just wait for wotlk enter northrend in your mishmosh of green/blue attire hit the lvl 80 cap and think well now i’ve done that i might try kara to see what everyone was moaning/raving about it will give us the the in game feeling of actually doing it but without the oh no i’ve got to wait 7 days now our guild have cleared it the first night. if you go there at lvl80 and clear it in 20 minutes (lol) then go for some of the 25 man ones (and i must stress this “if you want to”) none of the dungeons or instances or even pvp for that matter unless on a pvp server is compulsary. you can /logout whenever you feel like it. So in short why is everyone moaning about it and trying to make out that blizzard is wrong and that they should be doing this, that and the other, if you know better then you go write the storyline/script for a game and you sell it to over 6 million ppl, all i say is if you do good luck to you. Just one last thing before i finish if you don’t like what blizzard do, why oh why do you keep paying them a subscription fee every month. have a good day all and for those enjoying lvl 1 starting areas , all the way to kara and beyond fair play to you. just remember to play how you want to play and the main thing is to have fun. /kiss

By: Astra

Astra — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:53:50 +0000

By: aveiceae

aveiceae — Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:34:12 +0000

my guild is just about dead due to karazhan; the few of us that remain drag on in hope that someday we’ll see a 25 man raid but it’s an endless cycle of older, geared members moving on for greener pastures (or getting poached by guilds above us) and recruiting new noobs that need gear, which means we have to gear them up, and older members move on, wash rinse repeat. Kara should have been more like UBRS and a 25-man zone should have been the first raid-guild-oriented instance in the expansion. Totally agree with the article.